like got said; like got never said....

gathering of the wu-lin chiefies


hiding a deadly secret weapon behind each back?

TOC Face to Face Forum LIVE UPDATE
Posted: 16 Dec 2010 03:43 AM PST
7:45pm Nearly full house. Forum starting soon!

7:48pm Panelists arrive!

8:00pm Stephen from Pasir Ris Punggol GRC. On HDB – SDP would like to privatize the building of public housing. Do you consider your way of providing for funding for it?

Goh Meng Seng :Govt has become the number landlord. Not feasible to privatize the use of land. If it had started in 1965, then yes, it is feasible, but not now.

Chee Soon Juan: Not correct to say SDP wants to privatize public housing. But to ensure HDB remains a zero profit venture. Need to get HDB to be transparent in all its transactions. First step is to get Govt to reveal the true cost of building HDB flat.

Kenneth Jeyaretnam: Conflict of interest between HDB and SLA. Ridiculous to speak of a ‘market’ as HDB prices is set by Govt. HDB should go back to being supplier of cheap affordable housing to the lower 30% of income strata. Also provide better choice for rest of population. Increase the supply of land to allow for greater amount of housing to be built.

Question to Chiam See Tong– Raymond Athony Fernardo husband of woman with schizophrenia. Difficult to get support. Caregiver also fall into depression. Why is it so difficult to get Parliament to talk about support of people with mental illness.

Chiam See Tong: PAP don’t like problems of people with mental disabilities.

Raymond: But I thought PM Lee says he wants to make Singapore a home for all Singaporeans?

Chiam: He says a lot of things. (audience applause) PAP credibility is down the drain.

SMU Grad Alvin to Gerald Giam. Income inequality lots of driving forces behind. What is WP’s policies to mitigate?

Gerald Giam: Focus on helping those in the lower income groups. Workfare supplement currently too little. Average $80 per month. Hardly enough. WP to propose to raise Workfare quantum. Most important though is to reduce the inflow of foreign workers especially for lower income jobs.

Patrick Lee political observer to Dr Chee. What is opposition’s plan for the next five years in economics?

Chee Soon Juan: Top 10 percent of income earners grown. But bottom 10 percent hardly moved. But very high GDP. So where is this money coming from? If continue on this trend the social friction will worsen.

SMU Grad Alvin to Gerald Giam. Income inequality lots of driving forces behind. What is WP’s policies to mitigate?

Gerald Giam: Focus on helping those in the lower income groups. Workfare supplement currently too little.

New Asia Republic’s Donaldson to Kenneth Jeyaratnam: PAP policies on entrepreneurship, raising retirement age etc… what policy direction is the PAP pointing to? What is Reform Party’s policy?

KJ: Focus on productivity. Singapore has one of the lowest productivity in the world. All our GDP growth has been fueled by growing workforce. PAP paying only lip service to productivity growth which is the source of high income and higher value industries.

GENERAL QUESTION

a) Problem is not system. But the people in the system. People in the civil service are not in tune with the people on the ground. What are your solutions to this problem when majority of policy makers do not know what the people are thinking?

Everybody says HDB price is too high. But what is opposition going to do about HDB prices? They’re stuck. If lower prices, home owners are going to scream. If keep it the same new buyers are going to be unhappy.

Chia Ti Lik (Socialist Front)

a) Problem of disconnected policy makers - Give the ruling party a black eye in this coming GE. PAP has stayed in power for too long. They’ve created an elite admin service with super high pay. These elites no longer see themselves as having to push for something for the benefit of the people. What we see is a reflection of group think and accumulation of 40 years of uninterrupted rule.

b) HDB Prices – Land is 100% controlled by the Govt. They’ve created asset appreciation policies. This money from the people went into Govt coffers and is used to spearhead their investment overseas. We do not have an accountable system where there’s transparency and fruits shared from investment with the people. The high prices sadly may have to remain because Singaporeans have already committed to those properties. And it would be irresponsible to change that. But we’re committed to socialist policies. The old HDB prcies can remain. But the new ones can go on a lower price scales.

Goh Meng Seng

a) Problem of disconnected policy makers – Send strong signal to the Government. By voting for opposition.

b) With regards to HDB – The high prices is not a problem created by us, it’s by the PAP. There are actually two segments of flats in HDB. New flat and resale. New flat PAP has full control. Discard the idea that HDB is investment. It is not. It is a home.

Chee Soon Juan

On HDB – The biggest thing an elected opposition MP can do is make Minister of National Development open the book and reveal cost of HDB flat. Also make them account for where our reserves come from. How much came from HDB sales? Get them to open the books, and then let’s talk. With this information, I’m sure we can find smart people who can come up with the solutions. But we need the information first. Our biggest battle is not PAP but what PAP has done to our minds.

On policy markers being out of touch – they live in world of their own. They don’t live in HDB flats. The solution is to vote the opposition for a voice in the system.

Chiam See Tong

On HDB – PAP is making lots of profits. Not true there’s subsidies in housing. The government is making lots of money from housing.

On policy makers being out of touch – They started of as socialists now they are capitalists. Only advice I can give is vote for the opposition.

Kenneth Jeyaretnam

Disagrees that policies are on the right track. There’s enough money to fund a better social support system.

On HDB – If property prices crash, there will be serious consequences. Govt has vested interest in property prices rising. When RP is in power, has to be careful not to cause property prices to crash, while creating more affordable housing for lower income group.

Gerald Giam

On issue of HDB – Govt has not planned for influx of migrants. Solution is to increase supply. Housing loan should be reduced to twenty years or less, not 30 years. New flats are now pegged to resale flats. Solution – to peg price of new HDB flats to median income.

On complacency of Govt – PAP with its vast network knows what’s going on. It’s ignoring the feedback from the ground and persisting in the same policies.

New topic: Civil Liberties

Member of audience ‘Mr Chua’ worries that PAP does not has the same sense of patriotism as ordinary Singaporeans. Patriotism is most important issue in Singapore. Hopes that stay united, do not fight among yourselves.

Chia Ti Lik - Civil liberties have been curtailed. Even opposition have to contend in legalistic rulings. Civil liberties are a must for us to grow as a nation. A must to change this system and change the lives of the people in our country in the days to come. Should not be divorced from bread and butter issues. The only time when you see people rally together is during GE every five years. You don’t see that everyday, cos the ruling party doesn’t want you to know that so many of you are against them.

Human rights activist and lawyer M Ravi to Goh Meng Seng

Racial quota on HDB flats an example of discrimination against minorities. What is NSP’s stance on removing this kind of policies?

Goh Meng Seng

Race is a political construct. Tampines has 24% Malays. The result is highest number of Malay coffeeshops. Ethnic economics is good for minorities. As long as the concentration of minorities in an area is not more than 50% he can accept that.

Political detainee Michael Fernandez says in other countries, Government has offered compensation for people previously detained without trial. What does the opposition have to say?

the wu-lin meeting of the opp martials arts chiefies in local politics world was changed to QUALITY HOTEL. contradicting to the name of the hotel, the "quality" of the forum wasn't really there.

it was a night of LIKE GOT SAID, LIKE GOT NEVER SAID. clueless. that was what the whole affair was about. simply clueless!!

it was like a broken radio playing the same old weary tune. DOWN WITH HDB PRICES! OUT THE FT workers!! pay raise!! WHERE'S OUR MONEY?!! blah...blah...blah...

all those loud tiring rantings...everyone knew how to do it but who's there with the alternative or solution or even a whimsy solution or suggestion? NONE!

so if the opp clans were to rule peasantland, it would be from the frying pan into the fire. every peasants would get burnt to a crisp. then how?? :((